Video Transcript

– [Jeffery] I’m Jeffery from B&H Photo in New York. B&H for those who don’t know is a camera, video, audio, computer, consumer electronics, primarily e-commerce company. And it’s exciting for me to be here today. We’re looking at working with Optimove, wait, sorry, Pini, we’re working with Optimove. And I’m really excited to see what different people do with the tool, hear about all of these exciting practices. And I know after today listening to Albina, to Stephanie, to Jo, I’m like, “Oy vay, what are we going to do?” So the exciting part of this panel is here are four incredible practitioners of the CRM art and science and they’re going to share with us their wisdom today. So everyone sit down and let’s have some fun. Okay. To start, what I’d like to do is each of the members of the panel introduce themselves, tell us a little bit about their company and what they do, and then we’ll get into the fun. So who wants to go first? Asaf, why don’t you go first?
– [Asaf] Everyone, I’m happy to see so many faces who survived until this hour. So, as I said, I’m Asaf Younger. I’m the Director of User Engagement for MyHeritage. I’ve been doing post-acquisition marketing, retention marketing, conversion marketing, everything marketing and operations for the last decade. Many years in the gaming and gambling industry for Playtech and then for Gaming VC. And nowadays at MyHeritage who I hope all of you or most of you know. We provide people with awesome tools to research the family history, build the family trees, preserve it, share it, and pretty much discover and understand who they are. And yeah, that’s it.
– So it’s kind of multigenerational CRM?
– Definitely, yeah. Goes way back.
– Well, how about you? Cecilia, why don’t you go next?
– [Cecilia] Yes. I’m Cecilia Munthe. I work for Deezer which is an online streaming service. I’ve been working there for about one and a half years now and I work as Head of Customer Engagement. So I’m looking after the CRM team, and about a month ago the customer support team as well.
– Congratulations.
– Thank you.
– Enrique?
– [Enrique] Sure. So my name is Enrique. I’m running the data science team at Ebury. I’m not sure you’re familiar with Ebury. It’s a fintech company. We’re B2B company, actually. So I don’t think we have many here, but we’re basically providing financial services to SMEs that are looking at trading overseas, right? So picture any European SME that imports from China and sales in Europe. That’s pretty much our target market.
– Great. And… Okay, let’s… Oh, I’m sorry. Lauren?
– [Lauren] You’re so funny. I’m Lauren Pica.
– Could you just speak a little louder?
– No, I’m just kidding. I head up retention and engagement at Outbrain which is an Israeli native. So some of you might know us and work with us. We’re a content marketing platform. So anybody from a small blog writer to, you know, a huge brand can work with us and get their advertisements and content on big sites. And I’m from New York, so Jeff and I are going to have a lot of fun today.
– Yeah, and we have three continents represented here today. Israel, Spain, Spain/UK, and New York. So let’s continue. So this is what I was supposed to show a minute ago. That’s us. Okay, that’s interesting.
– You took the wrong F train, Jeff.
– I, like, press the same button it goes back and forth. Okay. I guess we’re… Oh, that’s all I have. Even better. Would you like this slide or this slide? We’ll do this one. Okay. So our first question is going to be. You know, a lot of times CRM is things like weekly newsletters, birthday emails, and each of you came to organizations, you probably found that when you got there and you’ve evolved it. So, would love to kind of understand what was that moment, what were the first steps you took, and kind of what could you share with us from your experience? So who wants to go first?
– I’ll jump in. Why not?
– Thank you.
– You’re welcome. I don’t think you should wait to even know your customers’ birthdays. I think CRM should start the day that you start your business. I think a big issue is it’s thought about after the fact a lot of people are really product-focused, but you could have the best product in the world but it’s nothing without your customer. So I really believe in customer-centric, which I know has been a big topic here these last two days. But CRM, it’s not a technology, it’s not a platform, it’s a way of thinking, and the sooner we’re able to kind of configure that mindset and always keep it back of mind at the beginning of your business, I think the happier your customer and the happier your retention, and yeah, and the better your business.
– Okay. Asaf?
– Yeah, I can add…I definitely agree and I can add that as in any relationship what matters is setting right the expectations. So in my eyes, it should happen right from the start. I mean, users come to a platform because they expect something, they want to do something on your platform or with your brand. For example, if MyHeritage was kind of a big premise that I’m going to discover things if I’m going to build my family tree on MyHeritage. But guess what? It’s a hard work and tons of people that we bring through Outbrain or other content or Facebook campaigns or whatever it is, they end up on MyHeritage and they not necessarily know what it’s about and what can I do here because it’s not that simple as playing as, I don’t know, a slot game or something like that. So setting up the expectation right from the start, right from the on-boarding, I think, or actually in any other sweet spot that you can recognize for your journey of customers, this is where the meaningful stuff happen, this is where the real CRM work is all about. And yes, you can do monthly newsletters and birthday campaigns and whatever it is, but as someone said here earlier, it’s just because everyone are doing it, it’s not the real goods that you want to do.
– Great.
– I think also it’s really important to start looking at the onboarding from the beginning. You get your acquisition, you get the customers in, and you want to make sure that they recognize the brand as soon as they get on the platform and that they get the experience that they expect from the acquisition that you’ve done. And I think that’s something that’s also gets forgotten a lot in the beginning. So to make sure that you’ve got that onboarding leading into conversion and then hopefully getting the customers engaged and reducing your churn.
– Yes, completely agree with that point. That’s something that for us has been key. Mainly, when I joined Ebury, this was a very relationship-based business model, right? So everything was dealt through the phone or directly face-to-face, right? So we had to start by defining the channels so that we would be able to serve these clients, right? So that was three years ago, that’s how we all got started in all of these and that’s when we brought Optimove in, by the way.
– Okay. So that sounds great, it sounds easy, but what’s the process like? You know, what can you share? What does it look like? How do you begin? What were some of the challenges you faced? And, you know, how did you make CRM more important in your organizations than it might have been before?
– I can start on that one.
– And let me have one more thing. Was like there one point that everyone got it?
– Well, so I think actually for our business one of the things we did, we used to have our CRM team sitting in France. We are a very global business, we exist in 183 markets. And having our CRM team sitting with only one market, which might be our main market, but still got too much focus from the other markets. So one of the decisions we did is that we moved our team to London which is our global headquarters and then made sure to make CRM one of our top priorities within the company. And this made sure that everyone from the top down realized that this is something we need to work on as a company together. So that together has made a lot of the changes and then as well bringing in third party providers like Optimove to make sure that we have the tools in place to set the CRM we want to have.
– Okay, great. Sure.
– I’ll honestly admit, I think it’s still a struggle even for Outbrain and we’ve been around for going on 11 years. You know, it’s the constant battle we deal with of retention versus acquisition. So, often, acquisition is a lot sexier, they’re winning over the customers and then, yeah, we all retain them, but it’s a lot more difficult, right? There’s a lot more that goes into it. And I also find that usually it’s blanketed. It’s, well, supports retention and your retention and his retention and we’re all retention, but, again, it’s more than that. So I think it’s a daily battle that I know I deal with. You know, fighting for more overhead, you know, kind of trying to steal some of the acquisition assets for retention. So I’m sure a lot of us deal with that, but it’s a daily struggle that I have.
– And how…how’s your organization evolved over time? So the structure, we heard a lot about that today, organization structure. How did that show up in your organization?
– Yeah, so I actually started at Outbrain in November. I started at the beginning of a reorganization.
– Okay. So in your first year, how was your organization evolved?
– Yeah. Well, I started under the customer success team which they then verticalized, which they then “customer-centricalized.” That’s not a word. That’s my own word today. So now I sit under mid-market. How we define that is, we kind of have our brands and agencies, you know, the top of the top they get a little bit more of the white glove service and we’re taking more of a copilot approach of having a DIY and having AMs or more like strategic partners. So that’s where retention really sits as well as support. So it’s certainly evolved from where it started. We’re finding that it’s working, definitely getting a lot more eyes, a little bit more attention, and hopefully, in Q4 some more hits.
– More hits.
– For us, as we were defining a new channel, we had to define a new function, so that the customers’ success manager or account manager function. We didn’t have that before, right? For us it was creating an online dealer function that would not only somehow hold clients’ hand during the activity in the platform but more importantly educate our clients, because we’re here talking about financial services, and traditionally you’ve had asymmetry information between product knowledge and understanding of these solutions. And especially when you’re talking about SMEs, there’s a huge education piece to each component that, yeah, you need to make them understand how these solutions can help them, right? So…
– And how was CRM scaled within your company? I mean, has it been a challenge to convince people that we need to grow this?
– Yes, so the first piece for that is segmentation, micro-segmentation in our case with Optimove, right? We have the channels, we have the segments, then it’s defining the function that will be taking care of each of these segments, and then what are the actions, right? What are the… In some cases it will be providing the products and the channels for securing, in some of them there will be more complex solutions, such as those that you would find in corporate banking, for example, it’s bringing them down to these SMEs.
– Great.
– All right. Two things I can add. First of all, you asked, when does it start to win a company? I think that for most companies it starts when you realize that you’re actually spending a lot of those acquisition dollars and then like a retention or a conversion of users is not up to your expectation, it’s not like what you’d want to get to, and then usually company starts to focus on the after-acquisition part of the journey or of the lifecycle. If we talk about processes within the company, and I can also share with what we’ve done in MyHeritage. It was a process and I talked to many friends of mine who do things similar to what I do with MyHeritage, and they have like different products all over the world or different gaming studios all over the world. And it comes to a point where developers or product owners each work on the whole thing and then they like release it and they communicate it or send the email and do things more sporadically.
So I think that first and foremost, you need to plant the idea that this is something that needs to be synced and centralized with one team and that everything must go through this central focal point within the organization. And once you do that on a broader perspective, then, like you said, you need to like dive deep and try to understand your user base. And I think it’s not just about the segmentation. I mean, okay, let’s say I’m going to segment to 20, 50, whatever segments of my… Can I really do something with it? Can I really go about meaningful treatments, meaningful campaigns that will get to where I want to go? And it doesn’t have to be like get them to deposit or get them to buy something if you’re e-commerce or whatever, it’s just get them to the next staged or get them more engaged in order to actually progress with your product or whatever it is that you’re offering.
– So constantly showing progress and it sounds like it’s one step at a time with some big moves to London. So, again, you know, the four of you are in organizations that are more advanced than probably the average. How do you know when it’s working? How do you measure success? And what does success look like? You know, how does each of your organizations define success from what you’re doing? You look like you’re ready with the mic.
– Yeah, I’ll go first. I’ll go first. All right. Okay, actually, like, we can speak about cart recovery emails and various campaigns and also other things. But actually, we talked about onboarding just before, and I can tell you something which is quite, let’s say, untraditional or exceptional to what people usually do. So most of the registration processes nowadays are very short, right? People want you to get registered. “Let me get your email and I’ll do something with it after, but let’s just have this bait and hook you in our product.” And with MyHeritage we understood that, yeah, we have tons of users who saw a TV commercial in the U.S. or Europe or clicked an ad on Facebook and they get there, and they don’t know what they need to do now when they got on MyHeritage. So what we did, we…and it’s kind of an engagement which is a bit different, it’s more on the product side.
So we kind of extended our registration process. We call it Magic Seven. We ask you to tell us a bit about your core family. So put in some details about your parents, your grandparents, your great-grandparents, and then what we do we start calculating this information and our algorithm starts to work, and instantly we try to get you some discoveries. And why is that? Because this is why you came here. You came to find something hopefully that you didn’t know about your family, about your history, and that’s the way of doing it. So maybe each and every one of you can reflect on what is it that, you know, people want to do in your platform? What can you do right from the start? And so first of all, if I’m able to bring them discoveries, that’s measurable. I can measure that. And obviously, we saw double digits increase in the percentages on that thing. But what it also does, and this is great, it helps you to start segmenting your user base because now you know, okay, these are the guys who did it, these are the guys who didn’t, these are the guys who started and abandoned in the middle, and so on and so forth. So right from the start, right from the onboarding you can start segmenting and you can do meaningful stuff with this thing onwards in order to, again, get to where you want to go.
– Makes sense.
– Maybe this is the tech in me, but kind of like GoDaddy was talking about earlier this morning. I think there is kind of the culture aspect of success and then there’s the business need aspect…success, excuse me. On the cultural side, this is kind of overused, I would say, in the tech industry but I am all about mini-wins on our team. We’re hosting an event in a couple weeks for leads and clients, and a mini-win for me was a client so pumped about this event, he was so ready to talk content and drink cocktails. But then this morning I signed on to Optimove and I saw a campaign I went live with three days ago. Already generated 40K and uptick for active users. So for me, that’s a mini-win, right? So culturally we share these successes every day with each other and kind of keep each other going, but on the business needs end, you know, we’re using all of our platforms to check LTV, check retention, check churn, check risk of churn, you know, all these things that we’ve kind of been…all these metrics that we’ve been discussing today.
So I think finding the balance of the metrics, make sure your data is successful but also that your customers are happy because, you know, we get upset customers all the time who open our emails and then they reach out to support really angry. They still open our emails. So kind of finding the balance of reality versus digital I think is really important.
– Great.
– I agree with that, and I think also working in the music industry and something that is as highly personal as music is to most people it’s kind of our success is around the engagement we’re getting and making sure that we are reaching the customers with the right content. When I first started, I was told that we were sending out a push notification about a new Justin Bieber album to our entire database. For me, that is the worst kind of customer engagement you can do. A lot of people will be very angry about receiving a Justin Bieber push notification.
– Are you not a Belieber?
– I am not a Belieber. So that’s kind of part of what we’re looking at, is making sure that that kind of engagement, we have a subscription-based model, so we only have like a one month pay and then we can’t upsell or anything like that. So it’s just looking at how often our customers stream, how much they engage with our product, how many of our different products they take part of.
– Were there any surprises from the Justin Bieber push notification, the 80-year-old segment or something?
– No. Not really. Unfortunately, as you can imagine, there was a lot of unsubscription, which is the worst you can get as a CRM practioner.
– Delete the app.
– Delete the app. Enrique?
– Yes, success for us is translated… Well, of course, so leaving KPIs aside, revenue retention, year-on-year growth, so on. For us, it’s clients that come to Ebury looking towards the good payments online, that’s basically what they’re after, and they gradually evolve towards more complex solutions and they understand what we can do for them, and in one single place they can be somehow mitigate other risks and accessing so many solutions that traditionally were not available for them in traditional corporate banking.
– Is there, like, anyone big success? We heard about the Justin Bieber story, but one like huge success that you can think of that’s a good example of some of the fruits of your efforts?
– My onboarding campaign is killing it right now. So I’m really excited about that. Yeah, so our open rates are like in the 50s, our click-through rates or 10% to 12%. I mean, I usually take 30% and 3% as kind of a win for active users, so I know I’m super pumped about operating right now because to me that’s the one series every single customer is going to get before they hopefully not unsubscribe or tune us out at any capacity, so this is the one that they’re super like really paying attention to learn how to use our product.
– We had…opposite to the Justin Bieber, we did a Metallica launch and shot their entire back catalog. And that was super-targeted, it was going out to hard metal fans, and a lot of metal fans are actually very loyal. It was also looking at customer listening to similar music, trying to kind of widen what they listen to. We went through all the different channels, so there’s email push, in-app, social media retargeting, and we saw a really good uptick on that campaign. So that’s something that worked well for us, the more segmented, the better.
– Great. Anything for you guys that stands out, or?
– I mean, there are many examples. I think you talked about a subscription-based and I think one of the things we started doing in the past couple of years and we are seeing huge increase from these activities is actually AB testing and renovating our old emails that are supposed to hopefully convert people and get them either renew their subscription or do their subscription, upgrade their subscription for the first time. And one of the things that we do, not only that we segment it and, you know, we personalize, we also check the context of what was the last thing you tried to do for which you made a payable or you got to a check-out page but eventually decided to abandon it. And once you get that personalized, for example, “Hey, Lauren. I saw you were browsing through Aunt Laurie’s census record from 1941 in, whatever, in New York,” then that does the trick. It touches it. It’s very personal. And then we’re seeing great success from these actually automated emails that we put in place and it does good work.
– How did you know I had an Aunt Laurie?
– You see?
– I do.
– We’ll hear about that during the Q&A. The… When you look at CRM in your organizations, it’s clearly a competitive advantage you have. At what point did it get there or did it become a competitive advantage? And why are you guys better at pleasing your customers than your competitors?
– Yeah, so… Go ahead.
– Okay. So for us, it’s a lot about content, as I was saying, we’ve got kind of a very highly individual, our users like the music they like, etc. So we’ve got a very good algorithm based on something called flow or it outputs flow, which is basically music recommendations based on the music you already like. And this is something that works really well for users. We use a lot of our CRM pushes around that, you would get music recommendations, you would get album releases based on previous listening history. We also have a lot of content that we kind of create in-house, original content a bit around the kind of Netflix model. So we’re doing our in-house podcasts, etc., that is kind of an advantage to us from a competitive point of view. And we also kind of support new artists that we think are going to become big within the coming next years, and they’ve got a big loyalty to our brand. It’s called These Are Next. So all of those creates a big content base for us to use, and being a subscription model, engagement and making people keep paying every month is what we need to do. So for us, the content is key to making sure that the user stay with us.
– Great, great.
– So for us, and following up on a point that was pointed out this morning, it’s not about the amount of touch points that we have, so it’s not about the daily, weekly, monthly communications that we have with clients, right? At the end of the day, our clients are financial directors or CFOs from SMEs. They don’t really want to know about every single micro-economic event that is happening out there, every single Federal Reserve meeting or Bank of England meeting. But they just want to be called or contacted at the right point in time, right? So whenever there is something that truly impacts their business, right? And that for us is what our key strategy.
– And is that very specialized based on different what you’ve learned about the various customers?
– Exactly. So that comes all the way… So prior to onboarding event, so at a prospecting stage, that is already being gathered, captured throughout onboarding and then throughout the customer lifecycle that is constantly being validated. Yep.
– Great.
– Yeah, I think our greatest competitive advantage is the fact that, so to speak, we cut the bullshit, meaning MyHeritage…
– They promised they were going to curse a lot. Here we go.
– Yes, so there we go, there we go.
– But basically, MyHeritage is all about people and their families and we respect that. And I’m not sure if it’s… Do you hear me okay? So when we write our emails to our users, we do it in a very different ways. I mean, a lot of my friends will actually see the emails I’m sending, they’re saying, “What? You’re sending so much text and so much copy in your email. Who reads that?” But imagine that, I mean, if your sister or father or mother or someone from your family emailed you a personal email, they’re not going to put a banner and, you know, a GIF flashing in it or whatever and take this offer CTA buttons. It’s going to look totally different thing, and this is what we try to do. Yeah, we have all the tricks and we, you know, aspire to do one-on-one scalable marketing segmented as much as possible and everything is prioritizing and so on and so forth.
But the real thing is that we’re truly there, we’re truly honest, we’re truly transparent, we talk about things as they are, because in the end of the day our business is constantly changing. You know, family trees, it’s like a beast that grows and shrinks because people add stuff, people take out stuff. Algorithms work constantly all the time. So we want to be in a place where we’re completely honest with the users, and this is what we do in our email campaigns and in our transactional or one on one events-based emails that are triggered. And it works. People actually read it. And I think it started in a place that we didn’t have the technology to actually, you know, do fantastic HTMLs, so we just sat down and we wrote things that we believed in. But with time, we kind of educated our user base, and this is what we’re now accustomed to get from MyHeritage. This is like the relationship we have, this is the expectation and, yeah, it’s a great advantage because you know you’re going to get something which is just real.
– Right. And, you know, thinking back to Blake this morning about the storytelling and these emotional moments, I can only imagine when you send these emails out, “Oh, I never knew that,” and the connection it builds with MyHeritage.
– Yeah, think about you took a DNA test with MyHeritage, I’m going to send you the results and, you know, it just happened that we discovered that, you know, we found your siblings or something. These things matters. We have photos discoveries, we can come up with photos of someone from the family generations ago. Other stuff we mapped like, I don’t know, most of the Jewish cemeteries around the world. So if you put someone who died in your family and you’re Jewish, most likely we know wherever buried and we’ll bring that image of the tombstone to your family tree. So all these things are very personal and they matter to people. So we try not to mess around with it. We try to be very real with what we communicate.
– Great. Next question is about keeping ahead of the curve. So, you know, what are your plans to keep this advantage going? What’s the future look like? How are you going to stay ahead of everyone else trying to copy you and, you know, imitate these great things you’ve already got out there? Let’s see. Lauren, how about you?
– Hello. Honestly, I would say imitation is flattery, right? Kind of back mixing this in with the competitor advantage question. I don’t think it’s about our competitors, I don’t think it’s necessarily staying above the game, I think it’s focusing on your customers. Your customers are your customers. You are the ones that know them best, so the more human you treat them, the more that you’ll get out of it. I’m also in B2B, I know a lot of us are B2C here. But when it comes to staying ahead of the game, it really is, that’s where it becomes product-focused. In our business, we all have our own publishers, so it makes sense that people work with both us and our competitors. It’s just more content in more places. So really we just have to give them the better experience. So I think, of course, I’m ramping up with Optimove, I’m in the middle of a 30-day IP warm-up, so that’ll allow me to send out a lot easier, more dynamic mailings, not just, “Hey, Lauren,” but kind of like what you were talking about your performance user by user, not blanketed statements. But I also don’t think that we can let all these platforms get away from us, right? These platforms kind of pop up every day, they’re agile, they’re changing every day. So I think what’s going to be an advantage for us as we look forward is to make sure that we’re keeping the human. You know, we should really talk to our customers, not at our customers. You’re more of a partner, you’re not a money maker, although in the back of, obviously, our heads it’s about revenue.
– Right. And it’s a common theme from all of you that authentic, tight, real connection with your customers and the more we do that, the more successful we are.
– Yeah. For us, it’s also to tie in with that to be where the customers are, we have a lot of interesting things coming out with Google Home, Alexa, wearables, which for us is very interesting. I mean, the music works very well with the kind of audio control devices. So this is something from a CRM point of view that I need to work out together with our partners and with our team, how we talk to our users through those devices. At the moment, there isn’t that much communications go through email, so push, it’s on your computer, on your phone. So how do we communicate to the users that are only using us through a voiced-controlled device? So this is something that is very important to us to keeping ahead of the curve and making sure we are where the users are.
– Great, thanks.
– Yes, completely in line. So for us it’s about listening to clients, understanding what their needs are, not talking about products but talking about solutions and feeding that back to product teams so that we can build the solutions and with that maintain the relationships or even improve our relationship with them.
– Okay.
– Yes. So for us, it was quite a while ago when we decided to put the…I mean, it’s a buzzword, right? But we really decided to put our customers in the center. And what it means is that not only, you know, everything we do within the product and the marketing is very customer-facing. But we also do things that are in many companies are left behind. For example, we constantly improve and extend and renovate our help centers and our Q&A databases, and we’ll try to be available for people as much as possible. Yes, you can call the customer support, and I didn’t say about MyHeritage, we operate in 42 different languages, so auto marketing, email campaigns, everything we do is like tons of languages and we’ve got phone support in all these languages, etc. But we also have over 90 million trees creators globally. So the load is massive and if you really want to put the customer in the center you have to do things that will allow them to get to you and get help from you as much as possible. So we do all that. We have the customer support teams and the help centers, etc., etc. But we also form, let’s say, the things that are more close to us from email marketing perspective and automated emails and so on and so forth. We constantly review, we constantly AB test, we constantly… We visit emails that we’ve done and we actually most of the times ask ourselves, “What was good about it? What we did well? And how can we improve it?” Because if I understand what I did well, I can redo it and hopefully be better. So, yeah. It’s a constant process of revisiting things that you do, but hopefully, it will keep us where we are, which is great.
– Okay. We’re going to ask and see if anyone has questions in a minute, but I’m just curious for the panel. Anything today that stood out to you, what you heard, or any moment that said, “Wow, I didn’t think about that”? An unscripted question.
– Well, I love corny copy. So…
– Eggs? Eggs?
– Eggs. You have to read my copy. My last newsletter I was quoting Earth, Wind & Fire, and I’m sure there’s not a lot of people that understand that, but I did, and it was at the bottom of my email. So maybe people don’t always scroll all the way to the bottom, so I got a little chuckle out of it and it performed really well. So I’ll have to say…
– Maybe we’ll get to see eggs next week.
– I don’t know if eggs and Outbrain go together, but it definitely had me stirring up by the dozens.
– Anything… Enrique, anything today that jumped out at you and surprised you?
– Yes. Well, this morning’s keynote I was amazed with this transformation. I’ve been a GoDaddy client for a while and it is true that how that shifting in its branding, how that’s moved. So that was…I mean, hearing it from the inside, it was pretty insightful.
– I agree with Enrique. I think that was a very interesting speech and it’s a lot of work to kind of I can take with me back to my team in my company and the way to kind of make the changes that we want to happen for CRM and for the business in general.
– Yeah, I think one of the main take-aways that probably all of us can agree about is that, you know, we’re all facing the same challenges from different industries, different perspectives. And yeah, I think it’s a great opportunity to share and have days like this.
– Thanks to the panel and thank you all and talk to you more.